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kap
Minister of Paranoia
Minister of Paranoia


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 2103
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that Dreamcast guy posted here, I would ban him and then get him castrated. Jesus.
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Smeg
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Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IT'S THINKING
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Mack_the_Hairbrush



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProgrammingAce wrote:

The thinking goes like this. You bastards are going to download this game 9,000 times a day, then we're not going to make any more games for you. We're going to the consoles, where there's some semblance of control.


Then they let the issue get to them. That's just mental. The piracy numbers are often kids and college students who have very little money. Some game designers don't make games for superficial reasons like money so what does that say about the game makers you are referring to? There is no excuse for not finding a win-win solution. Complaining here isn't going to change anybody's mind.
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ProgrammingAce



Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not always the developer's choice. Double Fine went almost a year without any outside funding in order to finish psychonauts after Microsoft dumped them.

I know several people who have worked for free for months after their project was canceled because they're that dedicated to the cause.

A lot of times, it's not up to the developer but instead the bean counters. I'm pretty sure clover would have loved to stay in business, but capcom didn't see them as profitable. So they did the best they could and opened a new indy studio.
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neomerge



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Woodstock GA!

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why couldn't the pirate get into the movies?
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Sardius
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because the movie was rated NC-17 and the pirate was not 17 or older.
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B00daW
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 135
Location: Gehenna

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mack_the_Hairbrush wrote:
Some game designers don't make games for superficial reasons like money so what does that say about the game makers you are referring to? There is no excuse for not finding a win-win solution. Complaining here isn't going to change anybody's mind.

Dude, I hate when people exploit the system on the radical right just as much as a lot of others do. The fact is, the only companies that can support themselves on their feet without resorting to conservative and boring subject matter are up-and-coming developers looking to get known and sell an idea or those already so well-known that they can afford to fail as experimentation. The music, film, and gaming industries are total balls-forward cut throat. You've got a few chances; do or die.

You're speaking solely from a consumer aspect. No, I don't make games commercially, but I've done my homework, know the economy, and have talked to enough people to know the heartbreak that is the industry. Nihilism in me says, "Hey, fuck it. If they were good, they'd be successful." But I'm also compassionate and understand that these are dreams being crushed.

Many of you are very very right. The fact is, these companies should be confident enough to know that these games will be blockbuster successes and account for loss through piracy. That's called defense. You gotta play both sides. On the consumer side, if you want to support someone, don't pirate their shit; especially if you can afford it. Just because you have the ability to pirate something and it gives you a thrill, you're still stealing.

If you want to see someone succeed, help them. If you don't care, it doesn't matter. If you want to hurt someone, hurt them. Do whatever you want.
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ProgrammingAce



Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36390/118/
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Mack_the_Hairbrush



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far I have only seen research for how piracy affects games from big companies. Exactly which small time games have been crushed by piracy? And what were their sales from legitimate purchases?

I only support piracy as far as preserving the rare and obscure. I'd rather buy a game for a good amount of money rather than pirate if that choice is available.
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neomerge



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Woodstock GA!

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sardius wrote:
Because the movie was rated NC-17 and the pirate was not 17 or older.


Actually its because the movie was rated ARRRRR!
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Carnivol
gay dickhead


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neomerge wrote:
Sardius wrote:
Because the movie was rated NC-17 and the pirate was not 17 or older.


Actually its because the movie was rated ARRRRR!


I think it's funny that Sardius' reply actually made me laugh.
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Vlcice



Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mack_the_Hairbrush wrote:
So far I have only seen research for how piracy affects games from big companies. Exactly which small time games have been crushed by piracy? And what were their sales from legitimate purchases?


I'm having trouble finding the article, so I may have hallucinated it, but I did read awhile back that piracy hurts small companies more than large companies except in casual games. It basically said that without piracy, smaller independent companies can compete on price, which can make them more competitive with larger companies. However, when they're competing with "free" big budget games from major companies there's really no way to make their offerings stand out and they lose both awareness and sales.
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B00daW
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vlcice wrote:
I'm having trouble finding the article, so I may have hallucinated it, but I did read awhile back that piracy hurts small companies more than large companies except in casual games. It basically said that without piracy, smaller independent companies can compete on price, which can make them more competitive with larger companies. However, when they're competing with "free" big budget games from major companies there's really no way to make their offerings stand out and they lose both awareness and sales.

No offense, but this is pretty much a no-brainer. Think of it like the music industry. You're an artist and you got a producer. You don't sell, you get cut. The producer gives you the money after a cut. Or do you wanna produce on your own? In this case, you can't be indie without being unlicensed. And who's gonna press discs for Hairbrush Ltd. or stock them in Gamestop? Nobody knows you.

If your product is pirated more than it's bought, the producer has little sympathy for your situation. It's just business.
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Mack_the_Hairbrush



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I'm a gamer, and I don't condone pirating games that are easily available, and I have money to buy my games. I respect progressive games. Why don't you expose to me some progressive games that I should buy.
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ProgrammingAce



Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psychonauts
Indigo Prophecy
Rez
Call of Duty 4
Disgaea
God of War
No More Heroes
Mario Galaxy
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taiki



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, if i have to have a spare PS2 or do something funny to the PS2 I already have, I'm pirating it. With the PS3 being open for region, and the 360 making it optional, it's harder to justify it, but when I still have to do funny things to my console to play the latest IIDX, I'm pirating.

I play games in odd as genres that rarely get ported to this country. I support the game developers when they bring the shit here. When Konami put out a US beatmania bundle, I snapped it up. When SNKP brought out KOF XI and NeoBattle Colluseum, I bought it. I even bought the damn Fatal Fury collection.
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ClamIAm



Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 139
Location: the frozen northland

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a fun counter-anecdote to one already posted: I bought around a dozen games (new) for my Dreamcast during its "lifespan".

Other than that, lots of interesting points all around. I liked the article ProgAce posted regarding "average" PC hardware. One side effect I thought of that's related to this is the fact that once J. Random Gamer spends a bunch of cash to upgrade his PC, pay for broadband, etc., he's not going to have as much left over to spend on games. The temptation to infringe is thus higher...
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Mack_the_Hairbrush



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I really worry about with piracy is that we are at the mercy of every person's individual decision. Not only do I have a problem with pirating what is easily available in stores - the problem I see is that if heartless piracy costs companies too much in sales than things have to be done to shut down origins of piracy, which is a shame because then we have less options to keep the rare and obscure games like Rez in circulation. If were an indie game developer I wouldn't let piracy of big budget games get in the way though. I wouldn't stop until everybody has heard of Psychonauts.
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Xkeeper



Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 327
Location: Henderson, NV

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have much of a problem with piracy of old games (anything no longer produced or out of print) or anything not readily available.

...

To that end, I also tend to pirate games if I'm unsure of the likability. Why pay $50 for a game I might hate? This is exactly why I won't touch a copy of Riviera again (I hated the game) ...

Granted, I love Disgaea, but I just don't have the $50 to spend on it. (Nor can I actually find a copy anywhere...)
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Vlcice



Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're talking about the PS2 version, the English reprint goes for 20-30$ sealed on eBay.
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