Thanks for posting this. Kunio Tachi no Banka is one of my favorite games of all time, so to even find out that Technos was planning a pretty direct sequel is pretty shocking news. Seems like it would've been Kunio meets Double Dragon in more ways than one. Too bad we can't even hope for a prototype or anything.
Also, nice to see that their girlfriends would have made an appearance, after they both got shot IN THE FACE!
edit: I just realized on http://game.ap.teacup.com/920-kowlon03/, the second to last picture, is it just me or does it seem like the boss fights would have been modeled after a Street Fighter match? I didn't glean that from any of the translations but that would certainly make sense with the Duck and Sway system.
A bit off topic, but this reminds me of the unused content for Return of Double Dragon. I remember reading about how there still existed a sprite of Marian in the game, but I can't recall ever seeing it. Maybe no one has dug thru the ROM's contents yet? I got the impression that must of the planned cut scenes and additional material were just planned and didn't make it into the ROM in time, but maybe there's something there.
At least for me, the hope lives on that more rare Technos Japan-related info comes out soon (like a Crash 'n the Boy's Ice Challenge proto). Thanks for the post!
Last edited by Linquesan on Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: 26 Aug 2003 Posts: 4192 Location: Oakland, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject:
Ice Challenge would be easy to make happen for a price, that's a totally attainable goal. I've just never focused my time or money on it because personally it's not as important to me as most of the other stuff we've saved, despite loving this series to death.
Thanks for posting this. Kunio Tachi no Banka is one of my favorite games of all time, so to even find out that Technos was planning a pretty direct sequel is pretty shocking news. Seems like it would've been Kunio meets Double Dragon in more ways than one. Too bad we can't even hope for a prototype or anything.
Kishimoto mentioned that he still wants to develop the game on a modern console (such as the PS3) according to the Q&A section of the Kunio-kun Special website.
http://kuniokun.jp/special/special/question.html
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Also, nice to see that their girlfriends would have made an appearance, after they both got shot IN THE FACE!
They did get better off-screen at the end of the game.
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edit: I just realized on http://game.ap.teacup.com/920-kowlon03/, the second to last picture, is it just me or does it seem like the boss fights would have been modeled after a Street Fighter match? I didn't glean that from any of the translations but that would certainly make sense with the Duck and Sway system.
Yeah, the boss battles would've been single-lane, while the grunt segments would've featured depth movement like any belt-scrolling game.
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A bit off topic, but this reminds me of the unused content for Return of Double Dragon. I remember reading about how there still existed a sprite of Marian in the game, but I can't recall ever seeing it. Maybe no one has dug thru the ROM's contents yet? I got the impression that must of the planned cut scenes and additional material were just planned and didn't make it into the ROM in time, but maybe there's something there.
Return of Double Dragon uses compressed graphics, meaning that the only things that shows up when you load the ROM on a Tile Editor are character sprites (plus objects they used). Some unused graphics are loaded to the RAM during certain stages and can be extracted through save state hacking.
Otherwise, you really need to have the know-how when it comes to hacking compressed graphics straight from a ROM. At this rate, I'm tempted to do it myself, seeing how no one else seems to be interested in hacking the game and uncovering all the unused stuff inside (all the hacks I've seen are difficulty patches and lame "music fix").
There seems to be a bit more stuff that never made it to the retail game than what Ebinuma let on when he made that commentary for Game Kommander. For example, Jimmy (Player 2) has a different roundhouse kick animation from Billy in the Japanese version (it's the same animation pattern, but played in reverse) and the manual implies that Jimmy was supposed to have other unique moves as well, since some of the moves shared by both characters in the actual game are described as being used only by Billy in the manual.
In the Double Dragon Advance commentary, Ebinuma mentions there was at least one rejected enemy design for the SNES version (specifically a hoodie-wearing gunman named Steiner). I wonder if there were more rejected enemies, because the final enemy roster is kinda lame to be honest. There's only four recurring grunts, but two of them are head swaps of each other and another of them is a recolor of Billy (of all the bad guys they could've brought back from the previous games, Jeff was definitely the lamest choice, especially compared to the likes of Abobo, Burnov and Linda). The enemies don't even bother to retrieve their weapons when disarmed, something that every enemy in the previous games always did, which is a huge oversight (along with not being able to assign the player characters or disable 2-player damage on the Options menu).
I regret not sending Game Kommander any follow-up questions for Ebinuma when I did the translated commentary years ago. I'm not even sure if Kommander is still in touch with Ebinuma after all these years.
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At least for me, the hope lives on that more rare Technos Japan-related info comes out soon (like a Crash 'n the Boy's Ice Challenge proto). Thanks for the post!
Joined: 26 Aug 2003 Posts: 4192 Location: Oakland, CA
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject:
Well instead of being surprised, just make it happen! There's no secret to how we dig this stuff up, find who owns it and start a friendly conversation and see what the price would be. Do your research first, aren't there two of these now? Isn't one barely translated?
It's a special 25th anniversary Kunio game that came out a few months ago. It features a bunch of game modes, such as a Renegade remake with River City Ransom-style graphics and a Kakutō Densetsu-style Versus Mode with characters from all the Famicom games in the series. Basically they tried to pull off a Rockman 9 with the Kunio series, but the Famicom-style sprites on 3D backgrounds looks too weird for me.
TheRedEye wrote:
Well instead of being surprised, just make it happen! There's no secret to how we dig this stuff up, find who owns it and start a friendly conversation and see what the price would be. Do your research first, aren't there two of these now? Isn't one barely translated?
I didn't meant anything by that comment. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see a ROM dump of Ice Challenge someday, but it's not a priority for me at the moment (even if it was, I don't think I would have the budget for it). I just think it's odd that even more obscure stuff has been dumped already.
On a related note, did anyone ever made a proper ROM dump of Nekketsu Shin Kiroku (Japanese version of Street Challenge)? I remember the most common dump was from a "fixed" pirated copy that has the "Todo Group" signs misspelled "odo Group."
Any hint as to where I could find it? The site that I usually use for NES ROMs doesn't have it.
Anyway, I've replayed Super Double Dragon recently and it seems they released an alternate version of the game in Europe that's somewhat different from the standard American and European version. Billy and Jimmy's "hi-yah" yell is different and the bookstore in the background of Mission 5 is a beershop instead. It seems to be an even earlier build of the game than the standard version, seeing how even the Japanese version had a bookstore in Mission 5.
You'll probably have to find a torrent for a romset that's seen an update in the past couple of years, i.e. not GoodNES. A recent set from the No-Intro guys should have it.
I just got around to checking out Super Mad Champ, and it made me wonder if maybe there is some original version of the game, intact with the Kunio theme, floating out there.
As far as I know, the Kunio racing game was first advertised in the manual (still haven't seen this ad!) and the go-kart fight ring within Kunio Tachi no Banka, which came out almost a year before Super Mad Champ came out in March of 1995. Considering the game is pretty much just the motorcycle segment from Kunio Tachi no Banka, surely it wouldn't have taken that long to develop...?
Reading about Givro was pretty interesting too, as it was apparently formed by ex-Technos Japan employees. I wonder if there was some kind of fallout between the two companies that resulted in Super Mad Champ becoming pretty generic in its presentation. Maybe Givro would have, at one point, been slated to develop the Claw of Kowloon as well?
Also very interesting that they developed the Wonder Project games. I remember the sequel being maybe a launch title for the N64. I would not have imagined a Technos Japan link there!
I don't think there was any real fallout between Technos and Almanic. The manual for Kunio-tachi no Banka lists the game under the name of Mad Champ 2088 with a tentative July release date, which means that they were already planning to release it as an original game by the time they've already finished working on Banka.
Although, I do think a lot of the former Technos guys that left the company while it was still in business were tired of Technos becoming "The Kunio Company." Even the River City Ransom creators (Mokeke and Yoshimitsu) said they wanted to make Downtown Nekketsu sequels that didn't involve Kunio.
http://www.mkidz.jp/
They've been working on it for quite a few years now (since 2008 IIRC). The funny thing about Miracle Kidz is that they're a separate entity from Million and the River City Dodge Ball All-Stars PC game, along with Downtown Smash Dodge Ball for the Xbox 360, were released without Million's involvement. Essentially they're fangames made by the original developers. The Wii dodgeball game they released last year did had an official Million licensing though.
New interview with Kishimoto regarding these canceled projects from the official Kunio-kun. It seems that the new 3DS Kunio game borrows some ideas from Claw of Kowloon.
http://kuniokun.jp/rantokyosokyoku/special/
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An Introduction to the Unreleased Works of the Nekketsu series.
In this page we will introduce two unreleased games that were being planned by Technos Japan Corp., the company that brought us the Kunio series. We would like to thank Yoshihisa Kishimoto for providing us with the concept art during the interview.
Part 1: Nekketsu Kart!
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Q: What was the title of this project?
Kishimoto: It was untitled. We never had the chance of naming it officially.
Q: If you could give it a title now, what would it be?
K: Nekketsu Kart!
Q: When was this plan written and what was the intended platform?
K: We planned the game for the Super Famicom in 1992, a couple of years before the original PlayStation was released. It was written around the time we've released Kunio-kun no Dodgeball dayo Zen'in Shūgō (the SFC sequel to Super Dodge Ball).
Q: How did Technos came up with the idea of having Kunio and co. riding pigs? The concept art shows the characters riding other animals as well, such as a rhino and a lion.
K: The project came into fruition due to a Formula Three racing team that Technos was sponsoring at the time. The game originally started as a standard kart racing game, but gradually transformed into a polo game in order to differentiate it from other racing games being released at the time. Polo is a team sport that is played on a horseback, but that was too plain, so our version of the game would've had the players riding wild animals instead.
Q: The concept art also shows characters from the Downtown Nekketsu games such as a Tōdō (Todd Thornley in Crash 'n the Boys) and Gōda (Ivan from River City Ransom). Was this game part of the "Downtown" spinoff series?
A: Yes. We had plans to release under the Downtown Nekketsu brand.
Thank you for your cooperation. We hope that you'll get another chance to make this game. It looked really fun.
Part 2: The Claw of Kowloon
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Q: Please tell us when was this game planned out and what was the target platform.
K: It was intended for the PlayStation. I believe I wrote the plan in 1996, during the heydays of the console.
Q: The game plan gives details about a play mechanic where you can intercept an oil drum thrown at you and toss it back to another player like a game of dodge ball. Was it possible to use other objects in a similar matter?
K: Yes, other people... Actually, I was thinking of having all kinds of throwable items throughout the whole game depending on the stage.
Q: What kind of co-op features would've been included that have yet to be seen in other co-op games since Double Dragon?
K: We've created a variety of co-op playing techniques starting from basic 2-on-1 techniques such as attacking an opponent whose arms are being held in a bind by your partner.
Q: This game plan includes characters from both, the Kunio series and Double Dragon. Were the two franchises always set in the same universe?
K: Originally, they were set in separate universes, but for this project, we planned on linking the modern day setting of the Kunio series with the post-apocalyptic one from Double Dragon in order to give it a more realistic tone. Kunio and co. would've met Billy and Jimmy Lee during their training days in Hong Kong.
Q: This is off-topic, but what's the deal with the Green Abobo from Double Dragon? He has such an inhuman skin color...
K: The simple truth is that we didn't have enough memory to add a new boss. His skin color was probably inspired by a certain green giant from Marvel.
Q: Thank you for answering our questions.
Last edited by Johnny Undaunted on Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:23 am; edited 1 time in total
It's great to have some light shed on these unreleased games. I wonder what other planned games Technos had back in the day. They made a game around virtually every major sport - I always thought Kunio and American football would've been a natural fit. I can understand why we never saw such a game, but I imagine it was thought about and it would've been well ahead of its time.
Also, Johnny, I have probably asked this in years past but I am wondering if you have any further information on Kazuo Sawa or Kazunaka Yamane. I think you, or someone else, detailed that Sawa is around 60 years old, ran his own game/music company for a while in the late 90s, and as of 10 years ago was the president of a university jazz club.
But what of Yamane? I can't recall ever reading anything about him. It would seem the last game he is credited for is "Super Double Yakuman II (SFC)" in 1997. I think he is really talented and overlooked.
I also wonder why he is credited in Kazunaka Yamane in almost all of his games except Kunio Tachi no Banka, where it says Hitoshi Yamane. Surely it's the same guy? Was he ashamed of it or something?
Kazunaka Yamane is credited in Kunio-tachi no Banka as 山根 一央, the kanji used to spell his name. "Hitoshi Yamane" is just a misreading of that same kanji. Whatever happened to Yamane after the closure of Technos is still a mystery to me. I doubt even Kishimoto himself knows, although it wouldn't hurt to ask him.
Kazuo Sawa actually composed the music for the last few Kunio games released for the DS and 3DS, which were developed by Avit Niigata, a company founded by one of Technos' former programmers. He also did some freelance work with other company while employed by Technos. Battle of Olympus and Totally Rad were composed by him, and I believe the NES Astyanax might had also been his work.
I feel Xtreme Wheels for the GBC (Spike, 2000) is probably by Sawa too, although it's apparently too obscure to even have a video online anywhere - the music in that is really heavily reminiscent of the Kunio sports games he worked on.
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