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November 2003 - Elusions: Final Fantasy IV / Seiken Densetsu
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kap
Minister of Paranoia
Minister of Paranoia


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 2100
Location: I hate you.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah.. stupid kap, reread the thread next time!
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Ballz
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Joined: 03 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a valid question, though. Treeman kind of vanished a week or so after his post here.
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TheRedEye
The Internet's Frank Cifaldi
The Internet's Frank Cifaldi


Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The worst part of this is that I had one sent to me via email long ago, and it's gone now.
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Richter Belmont



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 277
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm equally interested in Famicom FFIV and SFC FFVII. 8 and 16-bit era Square= great. I do seem to very vaguely remember those FFVII screenshots.

Hope treeman comes back, although it looks doubtful...
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Johnny Undaunted



Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone tried sending him a PM? I'm eager to see those FFVII shots as well.
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AndrewT



Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 8
Location: Erie, PA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just heard from him the other day. He sent me the article to translate, but my computer's been non functional for about the past month *grumble* (I'm on my roommate's computer at the moment). It will hopefully get fixed soon and I'll have the articles translated fairly soon (the screenshots, it said, were made by the magazine, but they did have a Q&A part with actual members of Square)
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treeman



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally have the FF7 pictures available - http://www.warmech.net

Unfortunately, they are conceptual screen shots (made by the magazine, not square)

Also, RedEye, you plan on finishing the 13 Days of Beta Christmas?
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ArnoldRimmer83
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is up with that removed airship mini game in FF Tactics? I couldn't find info on it anywhere. I wonder if you can get to it with a gameshark code.
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TheRedEye
The Internet's Frank Cifaldi
The Internet's Frank Cifaldi


Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treeman wrote:
Also, RedEye, you plan on finishing the 13 Days of Beta Christmas?


Yes.
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treeman



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lack of the Airship Mini-Game in the USA version is just plain stupid. If you can access it with a gameshark then it might not be even translated into English. I have no idea if they decided to take it out before or after the localization began. As for finding information on it, it's not common knowledge, so it might prove itself difficult but by no means impossible.
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Richter Belmont



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 277
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the airship mini-game was a game you could play when you sent somebody on a certain proposition, right?

I remember reading that Square had removed the proposition mini-games. How irritating! It greatly bothers me when they cut little features instead of taking one extra freakin' day to translate them. Most of the time, I won't buy the US version of a game if I find out they've cut things out of it.
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treeman



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, once you receive a book as a proposition reward you can play it.

---------

I agree, Square makes some of the best games but I think they get a woody out of screwing non-Japanese gamers. The most recent example is the PAL release of Final Fantasy X-2, they could have left in the Final Fantasy X-2 International features but instead PAL gamers got the regular USA version. Making Japan (and Asia) the only places that have the bonus features and an entire expansion (Last Mission) of Final Fantasy X-2. That's not right, it isn't just Japanese gamers that made their company so rich and famous.

Sorry for getting so far off topic, but I hate the fact that I'm going to have to play it in Japanese to get the entire story...
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Richter Belmont



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 277
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

treeman wrote:
I agree, Square makes some of the best games but I think they get a woody out of screwing non-Japanese gamers. The most recent example is the PAL release of Final Fantasy X-2... That's not right, it isn't just Japanese gamers that made their company so rich and famous.


Totally. Square is bad about that. This is a tangent I would actually love to expound on. ^_^ I mean, FFX, Kingdom Hearts, and now FFX-2 get Japan rereleases with more stuff? I've gotten to the point where I often wait many months before getting next-gen games to make sure they don't come out with some kind of new special edition and make me feel like I wasted my money.

Square's gotten really big-headed. In the 16-bit era, they could do no wrong, but in recent years they've shown how well-crafted labor of love storylines and meaningful character relationships have taken a huge backseat to grandiose graphical presentation values and FMV sequences.

It seems like they think they can get away with anything. I hoped that FF: The Spirits Within would be come-uppance enough for them, but they are making another big mistake with PS2 FFXI. They made a LOT of stupid decisions... $99 initial investment, requiring the hard drive despite the fact it is the ONLY game that supports it, not to mention no offline mode, and a high monthly fee... it will kill this game. Expect the rabid otaku to buy it in the first few days, then after that sales will go in the toilet.
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Ancient Oldie



Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Square's gotten really big-headed. In the 16-bit era, they could do no wrong, but in recent years they've shown how well-crafted labor of love storylines and meaningful character relationships have taken a huge backseat to grandiose graphical presentation values and FMV sequences.

It seems like they think they can get away with anything. I hoped that FF: The Spirits Within would be come-uppance enough for them, but they are making another big mistake with PS2 FFXI. They made a LOT of stupid decisions... $99 initial investment, requiring the hard drive despite the fact it is the ONLY game that supports it, not to mention no offline mode, and a high monthly fee... it will kill this game. Expect the rabid otaku to buy it in the first few days, then after that sales will go in the toilet.


I wholeheartily agree on this one. I couldn't even finish FFX because of its lack of gameplay. I believe they have taken for granted the great reputation that their titles have with the general audiences, and have therefore lost interest in creating excellent, groundbreaking titles, and have focused more on generating profits. Greed will eventually be their downfall.

Quite frankly, I blame the general shittiness of most console RPG's nowadays on FFVII.

You see, before FFVII, console RPG's were generally played by a small group of hardcore gamers who grew up playing RPG's, and were therefore able to differentiate between true gameplay and excellent storylines, and not be wooed by shallow games with little else but eyecandy. If a game company was to pump out an average RPG with a generic storyline and plot, most people would immediately see it for what it truly was. Hell, I remember the general response I would receive when mentioning an RPG to someone was "RG what?!"

That all changed with the release off FFVII, because FFVII effectively brought RPG's to the masses. Although everybody now more-or-less knows what an RPG is, at the same time, companies like Square have had to change their gameplans to cater to a much wider audience, of which hardcore RPG gamers aren't a big part of. Therefore, most console RPG's have become prettier and contain more FMV sequences, but, at the same time, their storylines, battle engines, and gameplay have practically remained unchanged since the 16-bit era.

I think another good example of this occurence is by looking at Japanese gamers and the quality of their RPG's, and the quality of PC RPG's here.

In Japan, RPG's are much more popular on consoles than in the states, hence they sell better, are taken more seriously, and an environment exists where you have many smaller companies producing unique games that are constantly vying for a piece of an extremely profitable market share, and get it, by virtue of excellence. This forces larger companies like Square to either release drastically improved games, or include a whole shitload of extras in their current games. Unfortunately, these games only make it stateside if it is deemed by the larger distributers that they will sell well. Unfortunately, they often feel that most casual gamers would be put off by either the complexity and depth of the games, or the fact that it isn't from a well known company. I think the whole hoopla over Xenogears is a good example, and it was only released here because it was a Square game.

As for PC RPG's, the audiences for them are often more mature, and have been playing RPG's for quite some time, (some since the days of Ultima IV and prior). You can honestly say they are a more discerning crowd.

Anyways, because of FFVII, most game companies have tried to copy its formula for success and other fairly popular titles before it, and the genre has pretty much stagnated. I remember games like Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, FFIII, Shadowrun, Phantasy Star, etc., all had unique attributes that made playing them great and new. Nowadays, most RPG's feel like an extension of the same regurgitated crap that began with those previously mentioned greats, but with little things like nicer graphics, mini-games and different names to separate them. It's of no surprise that many of the anthologies sellout, because those games were the real deal.


********************

Wow, talk about a fucking rant. It's just that Belmont got me thinking. Anyways, don't mind me...
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Linquesan



Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are really wrong about the new FFs. And I'm not a fanboy...

These days the plot of FFs are deeper than ever before. I didn't consider any of the 16-bit storylines "deep" or anything - they were pretty basic yet still fun. FF7 has one of the deepest and intricate storylines of a video game ever. I think it probably is the deepest, but I could be missing some games. I'm not kidding either; Square didn't spend millions on this game for a piece of shit. I recommend reading this: http://biphome.spray.se/indish/analys.htm
FF7 is just great. I was playing Final Fantasy games before FF7 came out, but it just blew me away. I'm not even a huge RPG fan; I just feel engaged every minute I played the game. There wasn't any boring leveling-up, I was maintaining the party along the way adequately and kept discovering new plot. It's got an actual theme unlike most other games or FF games ("things are not what they appear to be"). FFX had this too (everyone believing in a lie without questioning it). FF9 blew though, no defending that...they were just trying to make a throwback for older fans. And FF8 wasn't quite as engaging, but you're lying to yourself if you think that didn't have gameplay. That was pretty involved, with GFs and junction and all. Tactics was also a game from the left-field - I guess if you've played some of the earlier similar strategy games on Sega CD it wouldn't seem so innovative, but whatever.

I'm not saying anything's perfect, but I think you have to understand Square isn't that little company making 16-bit video games anymore. They wanted to take it higher and they did - now they're a HUGE game company thanks to their big yet safe gamble (FF7), so of course they now have grandiose graphics and whatever.

I know I'm ranting now, but I just think Square is getting an unfair rep by the "old school" people. I think they're one of the companies still putting out quality games consistently (I think FF7 and FFX are great). I guess other companies are trying to copy their success or whatever, but Square still does it best.
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treeman



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, Ultima IV... :)

Anyway, one comment that I wanted to throw into the mix about Square denying us the full games is that they had an opportunity to release Final Fantasy X International in the USA when the Greatest Hits version came out, the game was already fully translated because of the UK version. Yet they did not while Silent Hill 2 got the full upgrade in it's PS2 Greatest Hits version (Restless Dreams).

I have to agree with Ancient Oldie, things went downhill with FF7 because they catered to the mainstream. I wanted my FF to stay underground, but that's probably because I was (and still am) in the mentality, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it). However, after I came to terms with my disappointed of FF7 and FF8, I don't blame Square for heading in the direction that they did, if any of us were in charge of the company we would have done the same. It's a business, and a business is out to make money. But FF7 was rather disappointing, Cloud was unbearable, Aerith was useless, Caith Sith was just annoying and stupid looking, plus the graphics were not on par with other psx games out at the time, but FF1-6 were considered to be some of the best looking NES RPGs. Then FF8 looked much better but barely felt like a FF game, however, even to this date, I think FF8 has the best FMVs in any FF game. It wasn't until FF9 that the series started to feel like FF again. (I'm sorry but FF is meant to be medieval, not futuristic, that should be left to Phantasy Star). I felt like most people did about FFX after I finished it, but once I played it again in the UK version. I found myself really enjoying it, in fact, 160 hours later, I conquered all the Dark Aeons and Penance and that felt satisfying, something that I didn't really feel with FF7+8. I have accepted the direction Square is heading in now, but as a hardcore FF gamer since part 1, I wish Square would throw me a bone and release an old school FF game (or at least release FF3 for the wonderswan already).

Two things that are unforgiveable are:

1. Final Fantasy XI Online can only be played online, what about 10 years from now, the servers will most likely not support the game which will make it the only FF game that nobody will be able to play again. Someone needs to hack the PC version and make it run offline. I'm not cheap, $13 a month is nothing, but I want to be able to play it when I'm 65.

2. Final Fantasy XI Online should not be part 11, it should be a side quest, it's an experiment on their part and should not have been made a main game.

Anyway, that's my rant, FF is my passion, I can't hide it...
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Li Wang
SnHX WiIYrd
SnHX WiIYrd


Joined: 29 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's with the constant citiation of the games "going mainstream"? These games are created for a mainstream Japanese audience and always were.
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anarchy99



Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 102
Location: Austin TX

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say what you want about Square and FF (personally, give me FFVIII over FFVI any day), but you can give them full credit for just about every single RPG that's been released stateside since 1998. Especially Xenogears, and Disgaea, and Arc the Lad, and the two or three Tales games that Namco's seen fit to release over here to stellar sales.

Sure, they've gone more mainstream (I can guarantee you Kingdom Hearts would never have been considered ten years ago), but there's plenty of games that can fill your "underground" quota, that wouldn't have had a chance if it weren't for the genre's newfound popularity, established by FF.

Besides, the FF games are still FUN, so fuckit.
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mrfreeze



Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playing FFVIII was like cancer, only without all the fun that necessarily comes with having cancer. So yeah.
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KlarthAilerion
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RPG stands for role playing game. Show me a Squaresoft game that lets the player control the role and course of the character, and that also came out in the States. The closest I can see is Chrono Trigger, and as good as that game is, you're still confined to an extremely narrow role and potential paths of gameplay. And that game came out in 1995. What about the rest of the decade?

As for Final Fantasy, gimmick card games and mini games bore me. FF games are story-based action/adventure games with pretty little movies thrown in. Tactics was good, although the game was more strategy than role playing. At least you had a little more control over your characters than just what clothes they were wearing and whether that junction and those materia matched that purse and those shoes.

The technologies behind the games have been improved over the years, and it's time for the developers to step up to the plate and make the games take full advantage of them.
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