Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Ok, really now, it's over. SuperGrafix Strider never exi
Wonderbutt wrote:
Strider rocks. I'll take any version and gobble it up. Now, I do remember vaguely some talk about it being perfectly ported to the NEC SuperGrafix, that massive flop of a console from back in 1994.
I almost went ahead and got one in 1996, just for the sake of having the pixel perfect port in my own shack, next to my spackle-bucket/half a broken door table. But i did not, because i never heard anything else about the release. Seems it was vapourware.
I saw this page at about 101 Secrets of the Turbo Grafix at NFG games, and i just thought I'd share it, because it rehashed some memories. Just scroll down # 25, theres a screenshot from Diehard GameFan too. The screen is almost certainly of the real arcade game.
even if a SuperGrafx version of Strider had come out, in NO WAY would it have been pixel-perfect. that's impossible since the SuperGrafx hardware is far less powerful than Capcom's CPS hardware that powered Strider. look at the comparison between another CPS arcade game, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, and the SuperGrafx version. the SuperGrafx version isn't even close.
Capcom CPS hardware
main CPU: 16-bit 68000 @ 10 MHz
secondary CPU: 8-bit Z80 @ 4 MHz
Sprites: 256
Colors: 2048 on-screen out of a 65,536 pallete
Background Layers: 3
Resolution: 384Ă—224
RAM: several MB in total
Audio: YM2151 @ 3.579580 MHz, MSM6295 @ 7.576 MHz, Stereo
Ghouls n Ghosts ROM: 32 megabits
Strider ROM: 43 megabits
SuperGrafx hardware
CPU 8-bit HuC6280A @ 7.16 Mhz
Sprites: 128
Colors: 482 on-screen out of a 4096 pallete
Background Layers: 2
Resolution: 256Ă—224
RAM: 32k main RAM, 128K video RAM
Audio: 6 channels, mono
Ghouls 'n Ghosts ROM: 8 Megabits
rumored size of unreleased Strider ROM: 8 or 10 megabits
Arcade
SuperGrafx
not even close to "pixel perfect" as you can see, the SuperGrafx lacks much of the color of the arcade, as well as having much more simple tiles that make up the background graphics.
an even more striking comparison:
Arcade
SuperGrafx
SuperGrafx Ghouls n Ghosts has about 1/4 of the detail & color of the arcade
(again: 8-meg game on weaker hardware vs 32-meg game on much stronger hardware). the graphics in the SuperGrafx version were only somewhat better than the 5-meg Sega MD-Gen version, and in some areas, the Sega version looked better, and in EVERY way, sounded better since the SuperGrafx had the same awful audio chip as the PC-Engine/TurboGrafx-16.
Strider would have been in a similar situation to Ghouls n Ghosts, it would have had to have been drastically downgraded from the arcade. at best, the SuperGrafx could handle 1/3 to 1/2 the detail of the arcade Strider, if the programmers had been given enough ROM storage space, say 16-meg instead of 8-10 meg, and enough time.
Last edited by AirRaid on Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:55 pm; edited 3 times in total
EGM picture of supposed SuperGrafx Strider, long before GameFan magazine existed
this is certainly either the Arcade game or the ALMOST pixel-perfect Sharp X68000 computer version of Strider, a Japanese only release which blew the living crap out of the Sega MegaDrive-Genesis version.
Japanese articles with pictures of the *supposed* SuperGrafx Strider.
again, these are pictures of either the Arcade or X68000 versions.
Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 323 Location: Doritos Inc.
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:59 am Post subject:
AirRaid, your points are very valid and thankfully, well illustrated.
Those EGM scans are nice. And the difference between the SG and Arcade/Sharp X68000 very eye opening. There is no way the SG compares.
But in 1995 or so, when MAME and Sharp X68000 emulation was a twinkle in some geek's eye, the SG vesion was something to reaaaaalllly like.
(sigh) Let's add a little scientific rigor to this discussion, shall we?
The shots from those magazines cannot possibly be from the Arcade, MD or X68000 version of the game. Take a look here at the screenshots from these versions, and note the energy bar placement in the X68000 and MD versions:
Then let's compare one of those pics above with a similar spot in the arcade version. (Arcade on the left)
The pics from the magazine couldn't be from the arcade version (at least any one that was released.) Differences include: a telling gradient in the life bar of the "SGX" version, a score of 0 and a missing timer in the SGX version, differences in width of the vertical pole that Hiryu hangs to, and the fact that the resolution of the "SGX" shot seems to match one of the maximum resolutions of the SGX, 352 pixels. (I've cropped the Arcade pic down from 384 to 352 to show that the measurements align (like the space to the left and right of the score bar.)) I've also altered the contrast of the arcade version so that both pics would look as similar as possible.
All these pics are either mock-ups made on the real hardware [or a facsimile thereof], or the actual SGX game. We will never know which one until someone finds the ROM somehow. Anyway, I hope this will stop people jabbering about how they are arcade screenshots, or some other nonsense.
Rant, part II:
Corrections on the SuperGrafx specs:
482 colours out of a possible 512. NOT 4096.
Horizontal resolution can be any of [the typical] 512, 352, 320, 256, etc. There are 3 different horizontal resolution modes.
Vertical resolution can be anything up to 242 lines, but most games use 240, 232, or 224.
The audio is stereo, of course. Channels can be independently panned.
Rant, part II:
Corrections on the SuperGrafx specs:
482 colours out of a possible 512. NOT 4096.
Horizontal resolution can be any of [the typical] 512, 352, 320, 256, etc. There are 3 different horizontal resolution modes.
Vertical resolution can be anything up to 242 lines, but most games use 240, 232, or 224.
The audio is stereo, of course. Channels can be independently panned.
That is all for now.
Adding on to what you're saying there, the PC-Engine and Supergrafx are capable of any horizontal resolution between 160 and 512, and can be switched on the fly even during the middle of a game - that's how Art of Fighting for the ACD managed to fake up the "zoom". Most games stuck around the 256 area, Super Ghouls N' Ghosts ran at 320, and titles like R-Type ran at 352.
Even though the system couldn't have possibly received a pixel-perfect port, it was perfectly capable of trouncing the Megadrive version. A 12 or 16mb cart wouldn't have been entirely out of the question by the time of its release, as they were becoming commonplace in the Megadrive and SFC markets.
Another widespread misconception about the Supergrafx was the 8-bit CPU just couldn't keep up with all the new graphical features and this is why the system probably failed. This is a crock of shit. The dual PPUs handled a majority of the real workload, and as someone who's coded for the PC-Engine as a hobby, I can attest that it takes a lot to bring that CPU to its knees. The reason the system failed was NEC realised that there was no need for it in the market and their main demographic was folks who already invested and were quite happy with the CD add-on.
I still don't by into the myth of the SuperGrafx Strider. those pictures are very unlikely to be from the SuperGrafx. some other translation that was in the works, yeah. perhaps an early version of the X68000 port.
btw here's the back cover of Strider for X68000
looks like the EGM and GameFan pictures said to be the SuperGrafx version came from there.
I'll give the chances of the existance of an alpha or beta version for SuperGrafx at maybe 5%. very unlikely.
Tongueman: just because those Japanese magazine pictures don't fit with the arcade or released X68000 Strider games, does not make it a SuperGrafx version.
Tongueman: just because those Japanese magazine pictures don't fit with the arcade or released X68000 Strider games, does not make it a SuperGrafx version.
This of course begs the question, if not arcade, X68000, MD, or SGX, what could it be for?
And that begs the next question, and why bother making mock-ups for a fifth, unnamed system then?
who knows, maybe it was for the FM-Towns computer or FM-Towns Marty console. maybe the unreleased Namco 16-bit console (bet you never heard of that, right?) there were half a dozen platforms it could be for. like I said, I didn't completely rule out a SuperGrafx version, but I highly doubt it. not enough evidence.
This is getting even more far-fetched. These pics are from a PCE magazine, the game is written as being an 8M SGX Hu-Card, and is stated as being 20% completed... and you're speculating it's a cover for development on some other mystery system???
I guess the only thing to do is to translate the text from the magazines and see what they have to say.
Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 2103 Location: I hate you.
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:55 am Post subject:
You're all stupid, they're colored screens from one of those old Tiger LCD games. You know, the ones that something like 15 different graphics. The coloring job is amazing.
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