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Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru - Why isn't it translated yet?
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handofg0d



Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:28 pm    Post subject: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru - Why isn't it translated yet? Reply with quote

Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru (Lit. "For the Frog the Bell Tolls") is an Intelligent Systems developed Action/Adventure/RPG for the Gameboy, that was used as a template for the amazing Links Awakening (they used the engine and style from this game to create Links Awakening)

As such a high-profile 1st Party title, I'm surprised to see that it hasn't been translated yet (even partially!) I was wondering if there might be any real reason behind that, or if it's just been overlooked.
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Carnivol
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny this game should be brought up right now.

I've got some random crap for it in a folder on my memory stick (got a bunch of random crap there that I tinker with when I'm bored)


This game I've currently just put in font from Zelda Link's Awakening + edited some random graphics here and there.

But I have no experience with stupid variable font tables. The game suffers from what I can only assume is a memory limitation issue, as it only loads the characters it needs for the "current scene/text box", it seems, and then apparently uses a new table based upon those selected letters. (Heck, the intro text is easy to find though, as the table there is straight out based on order of appearance and tracking back to rom was done in 2 sec.

But the problem is to change what letters it should load... Evt. I could spread out the roman font upon the pre-selected letters for the intro text to then see if I could force all other parts of the game to stick to the same pre-chosen letters used in the intro... I think, but I have yet to poke around and see if I'm able to accomplish such a thing.

I guess the reasons why I haven't made any real progress with text editing is the same reason why no other bored guy hasn't managed to put together anything either.

Anyway, don't look at me for any progress or speedy results on this.
I'm currently working on something completely different that is "more up my ally" that I'm trying to finish but keep redoing stuff on.

This game is just one of many games I do 2 hours of random poking on every time I'm bored at work or something and happen to feel like seeing if I can produce some random results somewhere.

Also got the entire Japanese table (that is used in the intro text) written down along with a text file with all the kanji used in the game (Thanks goes to _Bnu for that one).


(Oh, yeah, I forgot to invert the colors before I inserted the font. Old shots, by the way. Basicly showing what's done, with the exception of the Japanese table "as it's used in the intro" and the full kanji list)

(Note: this was all something I did like half a month ago or so during a few days of boredom)
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neomerge



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad I opened this thread! I never knew about this game. Time to check it out.

BTW

Kinda on topic with Legend of Zelda Links Awakening... Was that Pokemon Diamond GBC pirate game made on Links Awakening engine? It seemed to be very similar to it.
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kap
Minister of Paranoia
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, nice, I never had any idea either. I also played the unholy hell out of Link's Awakening, so here's hoping someone can do something with this eventually.
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Carnivol
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking a second look at the game now.

Just found out where the internal font table for the intro text is located (right infront of the text, duh). Trying to make heads from tails now and will evt. see if I can figure out the rest of it too.


It's amazing what 5min of boredom and a thread can make you do...
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ICEknight



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those who didn't know/notice/care, the main character of this game is the same guy from "Richard's Villa" in Link's Awakening (the house with the frogs).


EDIT: By the way, wouldn't comparing Zelda's Japanese and US code bring some clues on how to make the text appear in this translation?
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handofg0d



Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carnivol - any work on it at all is good news to me, I always considered this a totally untouched translation since it's not even listed on romhacking.net or similar. I'm glad I started this thread, because your response was better than I was expecting.

Sucks to hear it's such a tricky hack, but here's wishing you luck (for whenever you decide to poke around with it).
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Carnivol
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ICEknight wrote:
EDIT: By the way, wouldn't comparing Zelda's Japanese and US code bring some clues on how to make the text appear in this translation?


Good idea.
I'll just have to *cough*acquire*cough* a Japanese version when I get back from work, I guess.

handofg0d wrote:
Sucks to hear it's such a tricky hack

To be honest, I'm finding it kinda easy to do quite a lot of stuff and understand a lot of stuff when I get to see things in motion. It's just that my lack technical knowledge and limitations that makes this very blunt and brute force like, with me just working my way "out" from what little I already know.


[edit]
Forgot to mention that I've now got my entire uppercase font going for the intro text now (but only some of the lowercase... Guess the game either doesn't like me or I'm just not seeing the pattern in the big picture here :p). Gonna see if I can figure out the other stuff soon-ish. But now I "finally" got some real work dropped on my desk. So yeah, things will have to wait a bit.
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mrdomino



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neomerge wrote:
Kinda on topic with Legend of Zelda Links Awakening... Was that Pokemon Diamond GBC pirate game made on Links Awakening engine? It seemed to be very similar to it.

if you're talking about the same one i have, it's pretty much a translation of the japanese game "keitai denjuu telefang" which i think was made by natsume. so, probably not.
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KingMike



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carnivol wrote:

But I have no experience with stupid variable font tables. The game suffers from what I can only assume is a memory limitation issue, as it only loads the characters it needs for the "current scene/text box", it seems, and then apparently uses a new table based upon those selected letters. (Heck, the intro text is easy to find though, as the table there is straight out based on order of appearance and tracking back to rom was done in 2 sec.


Tried relative searching?
The GB had such little VRAM that it was often necessary to "print" just the dialouge string to VRAM rather than store the entire font (otherwise, they wouldn't have enough room for the rest of the graphics)
That might be the only choice, short of knowing Z80 ASM and using debugger emulators to find it.
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Carnivol
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingMike wrote:

Tried relative searching?
The GB had such little VRAM that it was often necessary to "print" just the dialouge string to VRAM rather than store the entire font (otherwise, they wouldn't have enough room for the rest of the graphics)
That might be the only choice, short of knowing Z80 ASM and using debugger emulators to find it.


Well, the intro text is 1:1 ram vs rom (And what letters are used are entirely mapped on order of appearance when it's written out here). And I just changed the entire table infront of it to use the Link's Awakening font. Works like a charm.
(Like, let's say "A" is used somewhere, and then if A was the first letter to show up, it'll be 00, but if it's the second or third letter to show up, it'll be 01 or 02... Even though A is the first letter in the alphabet in the game... Gonna give me nightmares! The intro sticks with the same "Order of appearance" layout up to the Title screen. On the "Name entry" screen, it uses a new one)


But it's the other stuff (text in general) I have problems with "at the moment", as it's not 1:1 with ram. But I see quite a lot of places in the rom that seems to be somewhat identical to the "table" used for the intro, so I guess that's where I might've got my bounty.

Searching for the ram values (even doing relative) doesn't seem to produce any results here. Not sure what to think of that... But gonna try to map out most table like thingies now and poke them to see if I'm lucky and may somehow affect the first piece of in-game dialog.

[edit]
Found the "table" for the string ontop of the name entry like screen. But the text... Time to figure that shit out...
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Tongueman



Joined: 27 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Kaeru no Tameni was an interesting game. I'd love to see a translation of it. On the other hand, All I can remember from playing the game was getting to the 1st castle (which was huge) and not knowing how to "finish" it...
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neomerge



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrdomino wrote:
neomerge wrote:
Kinda on topic with Legend of Zelda Links Awakening... Was that Pokemon Diamond GBC pirate game made on Links Awakening engine? It seemed to be very similar to it.

if you're talking about the same one i have, it's pretty much a translation of the japanese game "keitai denjuu telefang" which i think was made by natsume. so, probably not.


Yeah thats it. Some of the sprites in that game look kinda similar in my opinion.
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ranranruu



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if I am bumping a very old topic. But I like to say that I am also attempting to translate the game. I have been having a very hard time getting to modify the characters from cavespeak due to this being the first time I modify a game in Japanese... but I am willing to assist you any way I can.

Again, I'm sorry if I am bringing something back up from the dead. It's just this game is one of my favorites and I like to help.
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BMF54123
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ranranruu wrote:
Sorry if I am bumping a very old topic.

Hey, as long as you're contributing something useful, don't worry about it.

It doesn't seem like many people are interested in--or capable of--translating this game, so I'm sure your help would be welcome.
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Nezu



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a thing: I've only just now discovered the game. (Well, a couple days ago.) If there's any way I can help out in my minimal ways (web design/hosting, promotion, copy editing), I would love to. Or, hell, I'll just exist as a random person existing that wants to see it translated as well.
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ranranruu



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, thank you. I'll start by doing a rough draft of the first few scenes (up to the point where you get the map). Then I'll post the script on here (Some parts were translated by a friend of mine already, so I'll give her credit to her too.)

I'll try to get it done as soon as I can. Then I'll post back in this topic.
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Carnivol
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooh, this topic lives.

Well, I've not managed to make heads from tails for anything text related sans the intro text scroll and the huge letters.

Guess the limited memory or something in the game makes it assign a new font table for every single time there's dialog on the screen or something.

I'd gladly dig out the few notes I have for stuff (although, they are kinda lacking.) and some of the random edits I did (do some file compares and ask, I guess, if you want to know what the heck was going through my head when I tried to do those things).


I haven't really touched this thing since I last spoke about it. Unfortunately, I don't have time for everything I'd love to do anymore :(

A translator wasn't my biggest concern when attempting to do something with this game, though.
It seems like that in most cases with obscure games like this, if you can get the technical stuff sorted out, a translator almost always pops up almost out of nowhere.
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ryanbgstl



Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, I've been working on translating this game for a while. You can follow the progress below:

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,7296.0.html

Most of the technical stuff has been completed, and I'm now looking for a translator.

This discussion has been helpful in figuring out some of the random misc. text, so thanks, everyone. It probably saved a few dozen hours...
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TheRedEye
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you find someone to directly translate the script from Japanese, can I take a pass at rewriting it into a script that sounds good in English? I did that for the Phantasy Star 1 translation and had fun, I'd like to do it again. I've been waiting for the right project (a game I give a damn about) and this might be it.
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