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[SNES] Contra III prototype

 
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Evan



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:53 am    Post subject: [SNES] Contra III prototype Reply with quote

There is a bit of controversy about this prototype, as a substantial amount of money was raised on the promise of an early beta of this game. It turns out there is little difference about this prototype from the final version, aside from the title screen. Anyways, I made an article for it, feel free to read about it there.


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Greg2600



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't understand the hoopla around it.
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Pemdawg



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg, they wereexpecting more for their money, especially considering they paid for just the rom, and not the physical proto. It was offered to them as being a nearly beta, when in fact it was merely a beta of the US localization, not of the original Japanese game. So, for all the money they paid, kind of a big let down. I'd be miffed too, and I fully agree with Evan's need to see upfront proof-of-value in any future buys of this sort.
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MathUser2929



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was one of the contributers. Behind the scenes, it took several dumps over several days for the game to finally to be dumped right. That kinda lead to the dissapointment too. Cause all we got for all that waiting was a different title screen. Still tho, it is kinda cool to know that the game was once gonna be called Contra IV. I wonder what Contra 3 was then if that were the case. Contra Force or operation c?
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KingMike



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most likely Operation C.
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Johnny Undaunted



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were definitely counting Contra Force as the third entry, since it had a planned late 1991 release and Neocity (the setting of the game) is referenced in the Contra III manual. Konami numbered Game Boy sequels separately from their NES/SNES counterparts (see Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge and the TMNT trilogy on the GB).

As for the prototype, I thought it was an interesting intermediate version between the retail Japanese and American releases. Just like in the JPN version, you see the staff roll at the end of all three difficulty levels and the true final boss is fought on Normal. Even the date stamps on the ending photographs are still present (they were removed in the retail U.S. version since Konami's localization staff were still pretending that the older games were set in the present).
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Ichiban Crush
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus, I own the Super Fam Contra III and didn't know about these changes. Though I'm not much of a Contra scholar, other than the basics (Series is Probotector in PAL nations, Contra III set a century in the future in the US instead of the present, some form of 30 lives code that's NOT the Konami code... just the basics.)

I really need to replay that game. Last time I played it was the American version, which for some reason I never bought since I beat it in a rental.

The reason the Konami GameBoy games are numbered differently was because they were spin-offs that I'm guessing they wanted to leave opened to them being canonized/self-contained (of course that was dropped with CastleVania Legends on GameBoy going from canon to retconned, but CV's has a clusterfucked timeline now.)

Strangely enough though, Operation C is a freak case of a GameBoy entry becoming canon (for now)... at least according to the WayForward Contra 4's take on the story, imagining that Konami gave a rat's ass at that point to say "sure, we'll let that slide." The events in Op C took place, but both soldiers (guessing Mad Dog and Scorpion? I don't know the time line well enough) were involved instead of just one of them, as the game suggests.

But for all intents and purposes, Contra Force WAS to be Contra 3 at the time. That was the original title according to Nintendo Power when they previewed the game... even though the Famicom version was a separate one-game IP altogether.
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Johnny Undaunted



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ichiban Crush wrote:

The reason the Konami GameBoy games are numbered differently was because they were spin-offs that I'm guessing they wanted to leave opened to them being canonized/self-contained (of course that was dropped with CastleVania Legends on GameBoy going from canon to retconned, but CV's has a clusterfucked timeline now.)

The Castlevania timeline wasn't established yet during the series' early years. I think it was only around the time they made the N64 version that Konami decided when each game took place (before that, you only had vague setup, like how Richter was Simon's descendant).

The first two GB Castlevania games were released under the Dracula Densetsu title in Japan and were supposed to be prequels to the Disk System games (Christopher Belmondo was mentioned in the first game's manual), but Akumajō Densetsu was made at the same time claiming to be a prequel and it wasn't exactly clear which one took place first (at least according to Game Center CX's interview with Koji Igarashi).

Quote:
Strangely enough though, Operation C is a freak case of a GameBoy entry becoming canon (for now)... at least according to the WayForward Contra 4's take on the story, imagining that Konami gave a rat's ass at that point to say "sure, we'll let that slide." The events in Op C took place, but both soldiers (guessing Mad Dog and Scorpion? I don't know the time line well enough) were involved instead of just one of them, as the game suggests.

LAUGHING OUT LOUD. It was really the Konami producers who made the change, not WayForward. Operation C has always been "canon." The only thing Contra 4 changed was making Mad Dog and Scorpion into separate characters from Bill and Lance and changing who were the protagonist of Operation C (the latter change was pretty much ignore by the Japanese localization).
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Ichiban Crush
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnny Undaunted wrote:

LAUGHING OUT LOUD. It was really the Konami producers who made the change, not WayForward. Operation C has always been "canon." The only thing Contra 4 changed was making Mad Dog and Scorpion into separate characters from Bill and Lance and changing who were the protagonist of Operation C (the latter change was pretty much ignore by the Japanese localization).


Man, I fail Konami history... probably because I never played Operation C (didn't have a 1st gen GameBoy until Link's Awakening was released.)

I always thought Bill and Lance WERE separate characters from Mad Dog and Scorpion, at least in America (REALLY need to actually play that copy of Contra Spirits.) They were "descendants" of the two was the story I had heard when I was a kid, but in retrospect, it seems a bit far fetched for two sci-fi Rambo types to have an established bloodline. (Was it tradition that ALL of Dog's/Scorpion's kids inherit the family Spread Guns?) I had always assumed Operation C was a sort of "gaiden" thing that may/may not have actually happened.

...so what's up with American Gradius III's space ship being referred to as the "Space Rattler" rather than the Vic Viper? More BS from Konami's manual writers?
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Johnny Undaunted



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ichiban Crush wrote:
I always thought Bill and Lance WERE separate characters from Mad Dog and Scorpion, at least in America (REALLY need to actually play that copy of Contra Spirits.) They were "descendants" of the two was the story I had heard when I was a kid, but in retrospect, it seems a bit far fetched for two sci-fi Rambo types to have an established bloodline. (Was it tradition that ALL of Dog's/Scorpion's kids inherit the family Spread Guns?) I had always assumed Operation C was a sort of "gaiden" thing that may/may not have actually happened.


Mad Dog and Scorpion were the localized codenames of Bill and Lance in the NES games. Their "descendants" in Contra III were named Jimbo and Sully, which was done to cover up the fact that they messed up by changing the timelines. It's pretty confusing since they simply switched back to the Japanese timeline for Shattered Soldier, so that it's always been Bill and Lance in every game prior to Hard Corps.

Quote:
...so what's up with American Gradius III's space ship being referred to as the "Space Rattler" rather than the Vic Viper? More BS from Konami's manual writers?

It was the Warp Raptler and I think that was just in the NES Gradius. It had some other weird name in Gradius III that I can't remember right now.

EDIT:It was called the "Modulated Artillery Exalter" or "M.A.X." in III. Stupid name either way. When your ship has a badass name like the "Vic Viper", you fucking leave it "Vic Viper."


Last edited by Johnny Undaunted on Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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I am Christina Aguilera



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ichiban Crush wrote:
...so what's up with American Gradius III's space ship being referred to as the "Space Rattler" rather than the Vic Viper? More BS from Konami's manual writers?


If anything 1980s to mid-1990s Konami lore is weird and the American manual writers/marketing are possibly a reason why, the American manual writers/marketing are almost definitely the reason. Just ask Colonel Cataffy and Fred Ascare!
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Blitzwing
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and paula abghoul....
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90's Gamer



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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking about the GB Probotector / Contra...

Still the best tune in a video game EVER (in my humble opinion)...

The Ending Theme
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Tongueman



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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really is a great tune, one of my favourites.

It feels like a classic Konami arcade tune crammed into a little Gameboy.
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Kid Fenris



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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to play through Operation C just to hear that music.

Well, not all the way through it. I used the level-select code.
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90's Gamer



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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kid Fenris wrote:
I used to play through Operation C just to hear that music.

Well, not all the way through it. I used the level-select code.


Same here, haha! It was a real bummer they didn't include it in the sound test.

Tongueman wrote:
It really is a great tune, one of my favourites.

It feels like a classic Konami arcade tune crammed into a little Gameboy.


Yeah, both Konami and the Game Boy itself at it's finest. P.S. I greatly enjoyed your article on the Game Boy's rise and fall.

Also very, very cool you mentioned Ikari no Yousai 2 in your "forgotten gems" list. That game too, has a really amazing soundtrack!
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KingMike



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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What excuse does Daedalian Opus have for its silly title?

Isn't the Japanese title like Puzzle Lord/Road. I don't think that's much better. :P

Dare I ask for a translation of the title "HidenInyouKikouhouZushikiNazoYuugi Kada"? :)
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Ichiban Crush
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame Vic Tokai trying too hard to localize everything into something edgy for the late 80's. Or not trying hard enough.

Like... well, the cover of Clash At Demonhead. I'm okay with the name change not being "Big Bang Clash" (which is what I'd call it if I were to create a spiritual remake) or referring to Bang at all, but the cover was 63 flavors of embellishing the actual game's art. Not raging, but it's pretty much doing what Capcom did for the first two MegaMan games.

Also, "Kid Kool"... Yeah, the original concept of it based on Japan's child actor of the week at the time definitely had to go, I get that, but if you're going to "de-Japan" the thing, why bother taking off his hat and not adding to the base sprite design, like shades (as seen on the cover)? Also, by that time, "Kid"-anything was just starting... not quite there yet, but starting to get old. (Sega obviously didn't get that memo for Kid Chameleon.)

Hell, I'm shocked the Golgo 13 games actually kept their anime origins intact (aside from Duke Togo being referred to as a "spy" rather than "assassin" or "hitman", but that one's probably on Nintendo, who obviously didn't play the games and just saw the text.) That one was a feature in my "Retro Anime Games In America" panel I did for an anime con in Tennessee years ago.
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Johnny Undaunted



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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ichiban Crush wrote:

Hell, I'm shocked the Golgo 13 games actually kept their anime origins intact (aside from Duke Togo being referred to as a "spy" rather than "assassin" or "hitman", but that one's probably on Nintendo, who obviously didn't play the games and just saw the text.) That one was a feature in my "Retro Anime Games In America" panel I did for an anime con in Tennessee years ago.


That's because Leeds Publishing was publishing an English editions of the Golgo 13 manga for the U.S. market at the time and they treated the game as a tie-in. Same deal with the NES Fist of the North Star game (actually a Hokuto no Ken 2 on the FC), which was briefly published by Viz at the time.
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Ichiban Crush
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I know they were published simultaneously as the manga (Nintendo of America DIDN'T, I don't think), but it's not always the case. Viz didn't get behind the first Ranma 1/2 SFC fighter (which was Street Combat and I for that I can't blame 'em), but they went with a full force cross-promote when DTMC did Hard Battle.

For whatever reason (I don't buy the "Rumiko Takahashi demanded the third game not be released in English" rumor a lot anime fans love to stir up for a minute. She protective of her work [The Japanese games of her work are released under the "Rumic Soft" branding.]), Viz wasn't as supportive for Super Battle before Toho canned it, and didn't get back into supporting mediocre games until one of the InuYasha games came out on PS1. I have that somewhere, despite my "meh" feelings about InuYasha.

Wow, this thread derailed from Contra to Ranma 1/2... what Pandora's Box did I open?
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