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rbudrick
not rubrdick


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 549

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bottom line is, the forums around the web aren't "secret societies," especially Lost Levels and Digital Press. They are public forums and anyone can join. Sensationalism is one thing, but to say any of these foums or sites are secret IS a lie, and therefore, the article is shoddy journalism. Don't say you didn't lie, because that's exactly what you did. The article's sole intention was to mislead, which you basically admit.

To allow non-collectors to think that this community isn't one about sharing information and isn't accepting of all newbs, but rather, is about a bunch of elitist antisocial dorks in dark basements with 20-sided dice in Grand Poobah hats is rediculous. Granted, no one in the world outside the community you chose to alienate would ever read the article, given where it has been printed. But, on the off chance that someone outside the gaming/collecting community did read it in an unbiased fashion, the article is is extrordinarily misleading, and I'm sure everything in your heart tells you so, and you know it was wrong, though you would never admit it. People don't like to be criticized when they are dead wrong, especially when they are indeed wrong and people are upset with them for it. Many folks have the initial reaction to lash back in defiance as you have. Any decent person would admit they did wrong and move on. The fact that you admittedly despise the people you wrote about speaks volumes.


The collecting community has never been a closed one. Without each other, the world would never have known that thousands of games even existed. On top of this, collectors always show off their rarer items. Whether it be bragging rights, or a want to show the world an items exists, we are a very open community. It is a misinformed, foolish, ignorant, incorrect, and insulting thing to say otherwise.

It is a wonderful thing you are no longer a journalist. The world most definitely does not need "journalists" like you. It's terrible "journalists" like you that make parents think that their childrens's DS systems are gateways to get them raped by predators.

"Is YOUR child safe?! See how your kids' portable videogame system can get him BUTTRAPED! Tonight at 9:00."

-Rob


Last edited by rbudrick on Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Drakee



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shut the fuck up dude. damn get a life and stop posting long ass replies on a fucking forum that no one is going to read.

edit: not to you mr.comment above me heh. i just wanted to add more in to that asshole.


Last edited by Drakee on Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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anarchy99



Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 102
Location: Austin TX

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kap wrote:
2. Do you really think you can get a fair shake? Even if you have something to say, even if you believe you're "right", nobody wants to read it, especially when you're writing bible-length posts.


he doesn't think he's right, he just excused himself by saying that he didn't like everyone's attitude and by that token he's given free reign to do whatever he wants.

JSzczep wrote:
So, I started a topic on LostLevels, wanting to get some opposing views and quotes. My usual routine when investigating a “scene”. (I’ve done this with the Jag community, CDi community, and ROM translation community, and they have all loved the articles I wrote – someone get Nightcrawler or Gideon Zhi to back that last one up). It’s what I do, it’s what I like doing, and it’s what I’m good at: “scene investigations”.


YOU made that article on ROM translation! that's the most horrible thing I've ever read, if I wanted to make an article about any aspect of gaming I'd do a whole hell of a lot of research and get opinions on many different viewpoints, not directly quote a few people from a single internet forum and call it a day
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JSzczep



Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 67
Location: On a trampoline

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kap wrote:
It'd be GRATE if the writer could come back and explain himself


You ask for an explanation, and...

kap wrote:

Do you really think you can get a fair shake? Even if you have something to say, nobody wants to read it


You don't really want an explanation at all, did you Kap?


As for Rob, I never said I despised anyone, especially not the collecting community I wrote about. I like them a great deal, and they were very helpful, open, and polite. They're awesome people.

The only people who acted like jerks, were Frank, Lost Levels, and a few people on DP.

Also, I hate to dissapoint you, but deep in my heart, I think my article is fucking excellent. The fact that it was slashdotted, paid good money, and got tons of positive feedback proves this to me. Also, I wish more games journalists were like me. Instead of recycling PR guff, I actually tried to something interesting. Again, the positive feedback proves to me I'm right.

I feel it perfectly represents what I set out to describe. A sense of mystery and intrigue.

Lots of British people were sad to hear that I had stopped writing, which, I guess, puts you in the minority.


Last edited by JSzczep on Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JSzczep



Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 67
Location: On a trampoline

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooh, comments on my ROM translation article. That was one of my personal favourite articles, I actually wrote two. A first part and a second part. It was a lot of fun to write, and I feel it documented something important.

While I'm opening myself up to flaming here, please do tell me why you didn't like it.

Actually, let's get this straight, we're talking about the Retro Gamer translation article, right? Becuase I've never heard anything about those two, so you might be mixing mine up with someone else's.

The EDGE magazine article on translation was indeed shit, and not written by me. And neither was the GamesTM articles on translation.
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handofg0d



Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 455
Location: PA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to beat a dead horse but...

JSzczep wrote:
Anyone who argues there aren’t reclusive online communities is an idiot.

re•clu•sive (adj.)
providing privacy or seclusion; withdrawn from society

Well, considering they are forums with hundreds of members I wouldn't say they are withdrawn.
And, considering they are public forums, allowing anyone to be included in the discussions held therein, there's no seclusion.

But, I guess I'm an idiot for understanding this.

Drakee wrote:
shut the fuck up dude. damn get a life and stop posting long ass replies on a fucking forum that no one is going to read.

I read it.
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JSzczep



Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 67
Location: On a trampoline

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for a polite reply handofgod.

I said "Anyone who argues there aren’t reclusive online communities is an idiot."

I did not say, for example, that Digital Press is reclusive, or that Lost Levels is (though LL is fairly small and not that well known).

There are other forums, genuinely secluded, and which don't allow outsiders; they're invitation only and aren't open to public browsing.

The part you quoted me with, merely stated that such places DO exist. You can't state there are none.


EDIT:
It's getting late, and I've got work to do. So I'm heading off.
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kap
Minister of Paranoia
Minister of Paranoia


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 2103
Location: I hate you.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSzczep wrote:
kap wrote:
It'd be GRATE if the writer could come back and explain himself


You ask for an explanation, and...

kap wrote:

Do you really think you can get a fair shake? Even if you have something to say, nobody wants to read it


You don't really want an explanation at all, did you Kap?


To be honest, I felt that way at the time, but I don't think anything you've got to say matters at this point. You did the damage, I don't see any retractions happening.
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handofg0d



Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 455
Location: PA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSzczep wrote:
The part you quoted me with, merely stated that such places DO exist. You can't state there are none.


I assumed you meant assemblergames forums. But you know what they say about assuming... (which really doesn't make sense but yeah.)
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nixon
Staff
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Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 445
Location: Northfield, MN

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the reason many of us had an issue with you was your follow up post to the "Just asking a couple questions about watermarking" first post in this thread.

You followed up by basically telling us all why you thought watermarking was good, and how you couldn't believe that Lost Levels didn't watermark, and that if you were Frank you would put crap in the games and on the screenshots so that no one could steal away your credit.

That's were we got our panties in a bunch. I didn't really know you were writing a piece at the time, and I don't think it would have changed my response, but damn man, where is your "objectivity" here? It would have been fine to ask questions, note the responses, understand why and what LL was about (which you still don't seem to get...) and maybe share your thoughts afterwards as to not affect the responses. You became very combative and so did we in response.

I also really dislike your "reason" for the Frank quote. He got mad at me so I put a dig on him in the magazine. I'm five and 3/4. He's helped you out as you said, and offered quotes for you many times, but because you don't like the response you got to a question, because it was different than your own, you decide that it doesn't matter any more.

As for sensational articles. Yes, writing something compelling is good. But offering up half truths does not help your credibility. Lost Levels is an open place, and we're generally accepting. The exception? People who are not willing to be intelligent, beyond that, we'll take you.

I could write more, but I'll go back to work now.
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ProgrammingAce



Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to me as if you got 99% of your information from the assembler forums, and mainly assembler himself.

Assembler's site goes out of it's way to protect itself from dangers that don't exist. When was the last time someone was arrested for selling dev equipment? Oh, right... never. That goes a long way towards creating an atmosphere where people are afraid of some boogeyman that will never care.

You went on to completely ignore the spirit of sites like lost levels. You took some quotes out of context, but failed to mention this site gives away unreleased games on a weekly basis.

Think about that and compare the mindset of the average assembler member vs. someone here. But since one makes a better story then the other, you chose to follow a site of people run by someone who'd paranoid schizophrenic.

As for secret societies, any site you can find via google isn't secret. If you really think there's a secret society out there, do you think they'd let a reporter in? You found people looking to brag about all the cool stuff they have and gave them a means to do it. They made up whatever you wanted to hear, and you printed it without checking.

Do you really believe that the guy who runs PS1museum was going to fly to asia to find some bootleg copy of a game that could be either Clay Fighter or Tekken? Do you really believe that there are a group of people out there who own working SNES-CDRoms? Come on, this is the shit you claimed was true...
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Carnivol
gay dickhead


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 575
Location: confirmed

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Programming Ace, just to add something to your comments about releasing of certain material.

There is a certain difference between an active IP/Project and a dead/abandoned IP/project.

But most cases where you hear about people somehow getting "raped" for being involved in a leak somehow of something "active" has mostly been limited to stuff that's internal in the company or evt. only goes as far as to a third party person contracted by a localization agency that've been hired to deal with the localization of the product.
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Sardius
Staff
Staff


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 508
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSzczep wrote:
hurrrrrrrrf


Hi. Nothing in the pages and pages of private conversations you just copied and pasted does anything to explain or excuse why you, by your own admission, vindictively misused and altered quotes for your own purposes. Would you like to try again?
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Dot50Cal



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProgrammingAce wrote:
Slagging on Assemblergames


You are still bad mouthing the site? Its been almost 2 years now. Just letting you know, ok? Cause..I mean 2 years.
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Sardius
Staff
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 508
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSzczep wrote:
Also, I hate to dissapoint you, but deep in my heart, I think my article is fucking excellent. The fact that it was slashdotted, paid good money, and got tons of positive feedback proves this to me. Also, I wish more games journalists were like me. Instead of recycling PR guff, I actually tried to something interesting. Again, the positive feedback proves to me I'm right.

I feel it perfectly represents what I set out to describe. A sense of mystery and intrigue.

Lots of British people were sad to hear that I had stopped writing, which, I guess, puts you in the minority.


Okay, I've thought better of this, and here's some stuff I hope you'll give some serious thought to.

One of your main arguments seems to be the fact that your article is good because it was well received, and because you've gotten a fair amount of praise for it. To you, we must seem like an angry, spurned minority whose opinion doesn't matter in the face of publicity at Slashdot or whatever.

The thing is, we're not just any old angry minority.

We know our shit. Our criticism isn't random and baseless; we can cite specifically where your article is misleading, misquoted, or just plain wrong. If you've failed our minority in the basic standards we hold you up to in regards to fact-checking and accuracy, you've failed the majority as well.

You've lied to the ignorant. The majority can and will take what you write at face value, because they simply don't know any better. They're going to assume you wrote what you did with fairness and accuracy in mind. They're not going to know or care about a little spat you had with some guy at his own forums and how it justifies you maliciously misusing a quote of his in the interest of writing a more interesting article.

The majority of people are going to be entertained solely because they do not know that you lied. The praise you have received was gained using deception, and is meaningless.

To dismiss our criticism is to lie to yourself.
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KlarthAilerion
Staff
Staff


Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 673
Location: New Orleans, LA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can be happy about your article because you had a few fans and thought it was generally enjoyed, that's your call. However, the simple fact that you (based upon your writing in your article and in your posts on this forum) still don't even understand what this website is about raises a giant red flag that says PRETENTIOUS DOUCHE all over it. Trumpeting your own horn over your own articles and being overly defensive doesn't help much, either.

This site is not about collectors, it is not a resource designed with collectors in mind, and it in fact has extremely little to do with collecting in and of itself. If you want examples of sites that are geared towards collecting video games then go to Digital Press or VGRebirth. In fact, I'd venture to say that this site was born in part from an older effort that was bent against the hoarding mentality that many collectors seem to hold. This site is about informing and about preservation. And unless you're talking about a museum that is open to the public, well archived and documented, and constantly making an effort to maintain and preserve its contents, video game collections of unreleased, sparsely-documented titles and media function completely contrary to the purpose of this site.

Whatever your motivations, you willingly and knowingly tried to stir the shit and push things to get your story, and then you willingly and knowingly misrepresented facts and quotes to make your word quota and hawk your shit for cash. If you expect those whom you have misrepresented to give you a pass, you're ignorant as well as a pretentious douche.

Be a man, think about it, and get over yourself.
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Getz



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Downtown

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I start, I'd like to say I have read the article in question.

Admittedly I'm not a part of this scene, so I feel that I can give you "layman's feedback" on your article. I enjoy this site and it's content, and my experience on the forums here has been a very good one. The staff are friendly and courteous, and there has never once been a feeling that this was a "secret society" that I wasn't allowed into, or that I had to be one of Frank's friends in order to get a reply.

Being an aforementioned layman, I can't and won't comment on the specifics of the article such as the Tekken 5 bootleg thing. But being a literate person and a regular reader of a wide variety of gaming media, I can say that your article was misleading and deceptive, and as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, it doesn't really matter how many instances of your article being "well received by readers" you hide behind: you can't disguise the fact that your methods were shady. I am a reader and I didn't like it. It's also no good to dismiss me as a "minority", because it doesn't matter who I am or what forum I belong to: I'm still a reader. I paid money for your magazine.

You took Frank's quote about the watermarking out of context, certainly, but what bothered me the most was how you started the thread without any hint that it would be considered as a source for an article. Perhaps I'm being unfair, and you PMed everyone you considered quoting to ask their permission, but I've seen no evidence that that was the case. You essentially threw a meaty bone to the dogs and documented the result, as was mentioned above, by cutting and pasting from internet forums that happened to share the same topic as your article. Gee, I wish I could have a cushy job like that! Especially one I am SO good at that I could whine about the pay and quit at the 'top of my game'.

The other tragedy is, you can actually write. I agree that a lot of gaming journalism in print is just a lot of company line rehashing, and that it's stale and useless, and that's what's such a shame about this whole thing. If you had applied your natural talents to ACTUAL research instead of just hobnobbing with the totally unbiased and impartial webmasters of conflicting sites, quoting out of context, letting some ignorant good feedback roll in, calling it great journalism and then getting disgusted by your paltry pay for all that hard work, imagine how good the article could have been! I think it's a fascinating subject, which is why I love reading this site, but this article of yours was more of a wasted opportunity than anything else.

However, none of this changes the fact that your behavior has made you come off as an arrogant prick and yes, a pretentious douche, but I suppose that's how you've gotta be in the journalism game. I hope your next profession is less taxing on you. Especially awful was your "take my ball and go home" attitude in this very thread, deleting the original post just because you didn't like the responses you got, and THEN using the thread as a source for your article! You quoted Frank out of context, then deleted the context entirely to cover your tracks! Journalistic integrity indeed.

And to be honest, it really stains your articles. Sure, most readers won't notice it since they've taken after you and not done their research, but I have, and I've paid the price. In this instance I might have preferred an old man's stuffy factual dry report. At least it would be informative.

Thanks for allowing a reader's feedback. I hope you consider it.

Sardius wrote:
They're not going to know or care about a little spat you had with some guy at his own forums and how it justifies you maliciously misusing a quote of his in the interest of writing a more interesting article.


I couldn't agree more.
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Wonderbutt



Joined: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 322
Location: Doritos Inc.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you guys agree with me that JSzczep is that Dr. Emu dude from TheRedEye.net letters section?
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Getz



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Downtown

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonderbutt wrote:
Do you guys agree with me that JSzczep is that Dr. Emu dude from TheRedEye.net letters section?


yep
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ArnoldRimmer83
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread has turned very malevolent.
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